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	<title>Comments on: Ramadan, Take Two</title>
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	<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/</link>
	<description>Linux.  GNU.  Freedom.</description>
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		<title>By: Steve Barker</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-117995</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 19:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-117995</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are many rivers leading to the sea...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many rivers leading to the sea&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116684</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aaron,

The more one looks at religions in general, the more realizes they are systems. Different recipes for the same soup. The more you look at religions, the more you realize they are more alike than different from another.

- They all move energy. It can be a prayer, casting a circle, or any other method used to change one&#039;s state and move energy as an individual and as part of a collective whole.

- They all believe in a source, higher power, deity, etc.

- They all have &quot;their way&quot; of doing things. Their own system. Some are more accepting of other people&#039;s systems (or religions), while many are not. Pagans, many of which are polytheists, tend to be more accepting of others than the monotheists are, but they all have &quot;their way of doing things.&quot; nonetheless.

I think the more one realizes the similarities vs minor differences, the better off they&#039;ll be. Religions are a lot like cooking-by-the-book... it&#039;s a great way to start out, but eventually you no longer need a book with directions on how to cook. When you reach that point in cooking, you move beyond books. When you reach that with spirituality, you move beyond the need for religion or such systems in your own life.

Systems have uses, but they all box you in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron,</p>
<p>The more one looks at religions in general, the more realizes they are systems. Different recipes for the same soup. The more you look at religions, the more you realize they are more alike than different from another.</p>
<p>- They all move energy. It can be a prayer, casting a circle, or any other method used to change one&#8217;s state and move energy as an individual and as part of a collective whole.</p>
<p>- They all believe in a source, higher power, deity, etc.</p>
<p>- They all have &#8220;their way&#8221; of doing things. Their own system. Some are more accepting of other people&#8217;s systems (or religions), while many are not. Pagans, many of which are polytheists, tend to be more accepting of others than the monotheists are, but they all have &#8220;their way of doing things.&#8221; nonetheless.</p>
<p>I think the more one realizes the similarities vs minor differences, the better off they&#8217;ll be. Religions are a lot like cooking-by-the-book&#8230; it&#8217;s a great way to start out, but eventually you no longer need a book with directions on how to cook. When you reach that point in cooking, you move beyond books. When you reach that with spirituality, you move beyond the need for religion or such systems in your own life.</p>
<p>Systems have uses, but they all box you in.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Toponce</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116682</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Toponce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 18:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116682</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, I&#039;m sure you&#039;ll associate this with me being an Abrahamic-only type guy, but I have a Star of David that I wear around my neck quite often, even though I&#039;m Christian. There are many symbols in the Star of David that associate with Christianity, the Egyptians, Masonic Temples and Mormonism (just look at our SLC temple, and assembly hall). While most Christians outside of Mormonism wear crosses, I personally prefer the Star of David as symbol of choice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll associate this with me being an Abrahamic-only type guy, but I have a Star of David that I wear around my neck quite often, even though I&#8217;m Christian. There are many symbols in the Star of David that associate with Christianity, the Egyptians, Masonic Temples and Mormonism (just look at our SLC temple, and assembly hall). While most Christians outside of Mormonism wear crosses, I personally prefer the Star of David as symbol of choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116681</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aaron,

A pentacle would probably even cause MORE discussion. People often confuse it with the star of david (funny). Most Pagans know more about religion than many people do because we tend to study ALL paths, all religions, not just one.

How many Christians read the Gnostic Gospels or know that the pentacle was originally a Christian symbol? (the 5 points represent the 5 wounds of Christ). The 5 points also represent the 4 elements plus Spirit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron,</p>
<p>A pentacle would probably even cause MORE discussion. People often confuse it with the star of david (funny). Most Pagans know more about religion than many people do because we tend to study ALL paths, all religions, not just one.</p>
<p>How many Christians read the Gnostic Gospels or know that the pentacle was originally a Christian symbol? (the 5 points represent the 5 wounds of Christ). The 5 points also represent the 4 elements plus Spirit.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Toponce</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116680</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Toponce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Heh. I&#039;m fully aware of the reactions I&#039;ll get. Last Ramadan, I wore a taqiyah while reading the Quran on the train to work. Yeah. Plenty of looks. Although, it also generated a good amount of discussion too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh. I&#8217;m fully aware of the reactions I&#8217;ll get. Last Ramadan, I wore a taqiyah while reading the Quran on the train to work. Yeah. Plenty of looks. Although, it also generated a good amount of discussion too.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116678</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aaron, Utah sounds like the perfect place to wear one. Try it for 2 weeks and watch the reactions you get.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron, Utah sounds like the perfect place to wear one. Try it for 2 weeks and watch the reactions you get.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Toponce</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116676</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Toponce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116676</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I live in Utah. There isn&#039;t much of a pagan population here. Most people out here belong to the LDS church. For the vast majority of the remainder of the population, they are Christian as well, which leaves very little wiggle room for non-religious. As a result, outside of high school, and the rare event in downtown SLC, I haven&#039;t seen anyone wearing pentacles, and I haven&#039;t heard of any news-worthy events surrounding Wiccans.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in Utah. There isn&#8217;t much of a pagan population here. Most people out here belong to the LDS church. For the vast majority of the remainder of the population, they are Christian as well, which leaves very little wiggle room for non-religious. As a result, outside of high school, and the rare event in downtown SLC, I haven&#8217;t seen anyone wearing pentacles, and I haven&#8217;t heard of any news-worthy events surrounding Wiccans.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116675</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 14:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aaron,

Well, I&#039;m not sure where you live, but try wearing a Pentacle out in one of the bible-belt states in the S and see how that goes. I happen to live in Minneapolis, the 2nd largest Pagan community right behind #1 San Francisco, but I tuck mine in when I travel.

If religions are like operating systems, then Paganism is like Linux... it&#039;s out there, but far less people know about it, use it, and those who aren&#039;t users of it, have all sorts of misjudgments about it. Paganism isn&#039;t pimped and promoted like Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is because it&#039;s not centralized (just like Linux isn&#039;t). It&#039;s similar to why Apple and Microsoft (centralized organizations with money behind them) promote so much and Linux doesn&#039;t/can&#039;t. Same thing with the religious counterpart examples I offer.

Just because Paganism doesn&#039;t have the level of awareness out there for prejudice against it, does not make it any less so for those who suffer bias, discrimination and persecution because of their beliefs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron,</p>
<p>Well, I&#8217;m not sure where you live, but try wearing a Pentacle out in one of the bible-belt states in the S and see how that goes. I happen to live in Minneapolis, the 2nd largest Pagan community right behind #1 San Francisco, but I tuck mine in when I travel.</p>
<p>If religions are like operating systems, then Paganism is like Linux&#8230; it&#8217;s out there, but far less people know about it, use it, and those who aren&#8217;t users of it, have all sorts of misjudgments about it. Paganism isn&#8217;t pimped and promoted like Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is because it&#8217;s not centralized (just like Linux isn&#8217;t). It&#8217;s similar to why Apple and Microsoft (centralized organizations with money behind them) promote so much and Linux doesn&#8217;t/can&#8217;t. Same thing with the religious counterpart examples I offer.</p>
<p>Just because Paganism doesn&#8217;t have the level of awareness out there for prejudice against it, does not make it any less so for those who suffer bias, discrimination and persecution because of their beliefs.</p>
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		<title>By: Diego</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116672</link>
		<dc:creator>Diego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Pawlo please look at &lt;a href=&#039;http://davetrash.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/the-letter/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this letter&lt;/a&gt; and tell me what you think.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pawlo please look at <a href='http://davetrash.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/the-letter/' rel="nofollow">this letter</a> and tell me what you think.</p>
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		<title>By: Diego</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116671</link>
		<dc:creator>Diego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 03:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Pawlo poor argument. Atheism is not an organized religion. In practice atheism it&#039;s just the lack of religion.
You&#039;re almost as atheist as I am since you don&#039;t believe in a myriad of gods that people used to believe to in the course of human history. I&#039;ve just gone one step further and ditched your god too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pawlo poor argument. Atheism is not an organized religion. In practice atheism it&#8217;s just the lack of religion.<br />
You&#8217;re almost as atheist as I am since you don&#8217;t believe in a myriad of gods that people used to believe to in the course of human history. I&#8217;ve just gone one step further and ditched your god too.</p>
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		<title>By: Pawlo</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116668</link>
		<dc:creator>Pawlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Diego

&lt;&gt;

The atheists are divisive and sectarian by definition. You&#039;re with us or against us. Atheism is also dumb by definition.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Diego</p>
<p>&lt;&gt;</p>
<p>The atheists are divisive and sectarian by definition. You&#8217;re with us or against us. Atheism is also dumb by definition.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Toponce</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116667</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Toponce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2012 19:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not trying to shoot anything down. I&#039;ve just didn&#039;t know that pagan religions needed raising awareness too. However, just because I&#039;m celebrating Islam for a 2nd time, does not mean I&#039;ve confined myself to only Abrahamic religions. I&#039;ve only chosen to participate in Ramadan, due to the massive injustice the western world places on the Islamic faith, calling them a &quot;religion of terror&quot;. With religious strain increasing in Syria, and other Arab countries, I would like to set an example as a Christian who is willing to learn, understand, and participate in a different faith.

Further, I&#039;ve attended a Sikh temple in Toronto, Canada and have a copy of the Bhagavad Gita, of which I&#039;ve read some. My wife and I celebrate new cultures and religions every year for our anniversary. This year is our 13th anniversary, and we will actually be celebrating pagan religions as they relate to superstition. We make a full day of the event. We&#039;ve also celebrated Judaism and Rastafarianism.

Given the world stresses and turmoils (such as the Arab Spring), I don&#039;t really see any other religions under attack than the Christians, Jews and Muslims, mostly in the Holy Land against each other, and against Muslims in the western worlds. Correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but those two religions make up more than half of the world&#039;s population. So, due to the massive intolerance between these two world religions, I&#039;m trying to show that as a member of one of them, I can love the other.

If pagan religions really need awareness raising, I will certainly look into it. But, it doesn&#039;t appear that they face the injustices that members of the Islam faith deal with day-to-day. It has nothing to do with Abraham.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not trying to shoot anything down. I&#8217;ve just didn&#8217;t know that pagan religions needed raising awareness too. However, just because I&#8217;m celebrating Islam for a 2nd time, does not mean I&#8217;ve confined myself to only Abrahamic religions. I&#8217;ve only chosen to participate in Ramadan, due to the massive injustice the western world places on the Islamic faith, calling them a &#8220;religion of terror&#8221;. With religious strain increasing in Syria, and other Arab countries, I would like to set an example as a Christian who is willing to learn, understand, and participate in a different faith.</p>
<p>Further, I&#8217;ve attended a Sikh temple in Toronto, Canada and have a copy of the Bhagavad Gita, of which I&#8217;ve read some. My wife and I celebrate new cultures and religions every year for our anniversary. This year is our 13th anniversary, and we will actually be celebrating pagan religions as they relate to superstition. We make a full day of the event. We&#8217;ve also celebrated Judaism and Rastafarianism.</p>
<p>Given the world stresses and turmoils (such as the Arab Spring), I don&#8217;t really see any other religions under attack than the Christians, Jews and Muslims, mostly in the Holy Land against each other, and against Muslims in the western worlds. Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but those two religions make up more than half of the world&#8217;s population. So, due to the massive intolerance between these two world religions, I&#8217;m trying to show that as a member of one of them, I can love the other.</p>
<p>If pagan religions really need awareness raising, I will certainly look into it. But, it doesn&#8217;t appear that they face the injustices that members of the Islam faith deal with day-to-day. It has nothing to do with Abraham.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116665</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aaron,

If you truly wish to promote religious tolerance, rather than shoot down my imperfect examples, why not explore ALL of the world&#039;s religions and not just the Abrahamic ones? Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are more alike than they are different, so proclaiming &quot;tolerance&quot; os something so akin to another isn&#039;t a stretch at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron,</p>
<p>If you truly wish to promote religious tolerance, rather than shoot down my imperfect examples, why not explore ALL of the world&#8217;s religions and not just the Abrahamic ones? Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are more alike than they are different, so proclaiming &#8220;tolerance&#8221; os something so akin to another isn&#8217;t a stretch at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Toponce</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116664</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Toponce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2012 16:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116664</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As unfortunate as the Salem witch trials were, I&#039;m not sure raising awareness for a 12-15 month mass hysteria event, where neighbor was against neighbor in a small town is worthy of creating public awareness for. Certainly over something that happened more than 300 years ago.

Regarding Tempest Smith, the issue is less about Wicca, and more about school bullying, which I do agree that should have more awareness made. I was bullied from elementary school well into high school, because I was mostly a skinny, introverted, nerdy kid.

Regarding soldier Patrick Stewart, it&#039;s less about persecuting those of the Wiccan beliefs, as much as the VA did not have the necessary pieces in place to make it possible to put the pentacle on the headstone. I would imagine this is because there are only a few hundred thousand, at best guess, in the United States that practice Wicca, and maybe a few hundred at best that have served in the military. How many of them have died in combat? It seems to me that the VA hadn&#039;t made arrangements for it, because it likely had never been raised as much of an issue in the past. I don&#039;t know. It just seems like red tape more than persecution.

Persecution of any religious, pagan or personal belief system should not be tolerated. Although I might be raising awareness for an Abrahamic religion, hopefully the point is being made about religious tolerance in general.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As unfortunate as the Salem witch trials were, I&#8217;m not sure raising awareness for a 12-15 month mass hysteria event, where neighbor was against neighbor in a small town is worthy of creating public awareness for. Certainly over something that happened more than 300 years ago.</p>
<p>Regarding Tempest Smith, the issue is less about Wicca, and more about school bullying, which I do agree that should have more awareness made. I was bullied from elementary school well into high school, because I was mostly a skinny, introverted, nerdy kid.</p>
<p>Regarding soldier Patrick Stewart, it&#8217;s less about persecuting those of the Wiccan beliefs, as much as the VA did not have the necessary pieces in place to make it possible to put the pentacle on the headstone. I would imagine this is because there are only a few hundred thousand, at best guess, in the United States that practice Wicca, and maybe a few hundred at best that have served in the military. How many of them have died in combat? It seems to me that the VA hadn&#8217;t made arrangements for it, because it likely had never been raised as much of an issue in the past. I don&#8217;t know. It just seems like red tape more than persecution.</p>
<p>Persecution of any religious, pagan or personal belief system should not be tolerated. Although I might be raising awareness for an Abrahamic religion, hopefully the point is being made about religious tolerance in general.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://pthree.org/2012/06/19/ramadan-take-two/#comment-116661</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pthree.org/?p=2412#comment-116661</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Aaron
The famous witch trials of 1692 in Salem

Other examples in more recent times include:
http://atheism.about.com/b/2003/08/03/persecution-of-wiccans.htm
http://en.ekopedia.org/Discrimination_against_Wiccans_and_Pagans
 (It took YEARS for Sgt Patrick Stewart to get his pentacle on his tombstone from the military)
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Stewart_%28soldier%29

Then there is the case of Tempest Smith, a teenager who committed suicide because of prosecution, She is one of the best known cases, but certainly not the ONLY one by ANY means.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_Smith
http://alterophobia.blogspot.com/2008/05/tempest-smith-another-victim-of-hatred.html

@Diego
Agreed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Aaron<br />
The famous witch trials of 1692 in Salem</p>
<p>Other examples in more recent times include:<br />
<a href="http://atheism.about.com/b/2003/08/03/persecution-of-wiccans.htm" rel="nofollow">http://atheism.about.com/b/2003/08/03/persecution-of-wiccans.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://en.ekopedia.org/Discrimination_against_Wiccans_and_Pagans" rel="nofollow">http://en.ekopedia.org/Discrimination_against_Wiccans_and_Pagans</a><br />
 (It took YEARS for Sgt Patrick Stewart to get his pentacle on his tombstone from the military)<br />
 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Stewart_%28soldier%29" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Stewart_%28soldier%29</a></p>
<p>Then there is the case of Tempest Smith, a teenager who committed suicide because of prosecution, She is one of the best known cases, but certainly not the ONLY one by ANY means.<br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_Smith" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_Smith</a><br />
<a href="http://alterophobia.blogspot.com/2008/05/tempest-smith-another-victim-of-hatred.html" rel="nofollow">http://alterophobia.blogspot.com/2008/05/tempest-smith-another-victim-of-hatred.html</a></p>
<p>@Diego<br />
Agreed.</p>
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