Comments on: Bruce Perens Rains on the Novell Brainshare Parade https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/ Linux. GNU. Freedom. Sun, 13 May 2018 18:21:35 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.0-alpha-43006 By: mp3 https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-88483 Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:32:33 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-88483 By stating such you are trying to rally everyone against Novell-and the method you are using is FUD-by definition. Until you can prove such a statement you are simply speculating- speculating a worst case scenario which would post-hoc lend total credibility to your statement...

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By: mp3 https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-88250 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:43:53 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-88250 Thanks … ! overed Bruce Perens’ efforts to steal Novell’s thunder. Head over to pthree.org which offers the most comprehensive coverage of Bruce’s

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By: mp3 indir https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-87900 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:49:10 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-87900 Thanks ... ! overed Bruce Perens’ efforts to steal Novell’s thunder. Head over to pthree.org which offers the most comprehensive coverage of Bruce’s

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By: Aaron Toponce : Emacs.NET? https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-87607 Tue, 01 Jan 2008 16:01:06 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-87607 [...] course, with all the FUD they’re throwing about with patent protection and what not, I can’t help but ask the question: “Who’s the innovator now?” [...]

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By: Aaron https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-87604 Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:43:28 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-87604 @adult forum- I don't mind you commenting on my site, but using an adult web page for your URL is not appropriate here. I've removed your link to keep people from visiting.

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By: adult forum https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-87569 Tue, 01 Jan 2008 08:46:07 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-87569 Karl- And what say you of Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft, saying himself that he is going to sue the Open Software developers if they don’t quit infringing ‘his’ patents? The “facts”, as you refer to them, are already on the table. No litigations yet, but a company’s expressly written desire to do so. Bruce isn’t speculating, he’s taking the intent directly from the horse’s mouth.

ı agreee with comment good article thanks

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By: indigo196 https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-87394 Mon, 31 Dec 2007 00:46:31 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-87394 I have just gone through several days of trying distros and found openSUSE to be solid... its what I am using right now... but this article makes me think I might want to head back to Debian.

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By: sharp aquos https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-85091 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:00:35 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-85091 As far as your comment to Bruce, Microsoft has a track record that allows us to predict their actions. They have every intent, and most definitely the capability, to sue end-users for patent infringement. That is the goal of this agreement.

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By: Arts https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-84664 Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:37:45 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-84664 I am just not convinced the market is here. More and more people are not willing to accept DRM, people are not willing to pay as much for digital content as the 'real thing,' and people still like the feel of paper. That being said though, there is the potential for a very popular service akin to the iTunes store which means libraries will have to figure out how to meet the needs of users who want content in this manner. Good summary of the Kindle!

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By: Gta https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-84663 Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:37:04 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-84663 As far as your comment to Bruce, Microsoft has a track record that allows us to predict their actions. They have every intent, and most definitely the capability, to sue end-users for patent infringement. That is the goal of this agreement. Ballmer has said it himself. What more do you need? And we’re the ones spreading the FUD? That’s what I find funny about your post and your logic.

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By: JLGraham https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-74290 Thu, 25 Oct 2007 04:01:39 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-74290 I agree with the Muse. Are these the standards that we have come to, to threaten lawsuits as a business strategy? Pathetic.

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By: The Muse https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-74289 Thu, 25 Oct 2007 04:00:06 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-74289 Novell and Microsoft both hope to sue end users if the Open Source Software is not purchased from them.

They actually said that? Don't you think that's taking it to the extreme? Very unproffesional too.

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By: sohbet https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-73030 Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:08:43 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-73030 That logic is first and foremost a logic of self-survival.” And since when does the CEO of a company (even a large one) “not dictate or direct the legal division”. If not him then who does direct the legal division? Let me be more explicit… everyone at microsoft is ultimately responsible to the CEO

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By: Pioneer https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-72659 Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:52:44 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-72659 Hi Every!
This site is interesting and very informative, nicely interface. Enjoyed browsing through the site.
Thanks!

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By: Tomasz Gorski https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-72186 Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:23:39 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-72186 That logic is first and foremost a logic of self-survival.” And since when does the CEO of a company (even a large one) “not dictate or direct the legal division”. If not him then who does direct the legal division? Let me be more explicit… everyone at microsoft is ultimately responsible to the CEO

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By: sohbet https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-71860 Tue, 09 Oct 2007 03:48:35 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-71860 Your comments pose themeselves as if they reflect the actual reality, yet the facts, however, speak a different language

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By: chat https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-71859 Tue, 09 Oct 2007 03:40:44 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-71859 I am not a fan of the recent MS-Novell deal

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By: Viktor https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-70706 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:38:26 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-70706 So why not? Lets give them the one and only Monopol status, so that they can reign over us non-intellectual people...

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By: Rencontre https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-70525 Wed, 26 Sep 2007 14:43:28 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-70525 I am not a fan of the recent MS-Novell deal. But being angered by this deal does not justify making such claims.

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By: Apteka internetowa https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-69971 Fri, 21 Sep 2007 23:42:06 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-69971 Thanks for very interesting article. Can I translate your article into polish and publish at my website?
I will back here and check your answer. Keep up the good work.

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By: Piter https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-69067 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:57:11 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-69067 This site is interesting and very informative, nicely interface. Enjoyed browsing through the site.

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By: Aaron https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40960 Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:17:16 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40960 Francis- It's not a comeback. I find your post funny, and have concluded that you have not listened to the conference. You need to listen to the audio.

As far as your comment to Bruce, Microsoft has a track record that allows us to predict their actions. They have every intent, and most definitely the capability, to sue end-users for patent infringement. That is the goal of this agreement. Ballmer has said it himself. What more do you need? And we're the ones spreading the FUD? That's what I find funny about your post and your logic.

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By: Francis Giannaros https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40952 Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:59:13 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40952 Aaron,

> Francis- Hahahaha!! You honestly think Bruce Perens is the one spreading the FUD??? I think you need to listen to the audio excerpt.

Nice comeback.

> Anonymous Coward- A similar link to ZDNet was posted on Slashdot. Who’s the one spreading the FUD? Microsoft or Perens. I tend to think it’s the former. Just read Balmer’s own words:

Microsoft can say whatever they want; Perens can also say whatever they want. That changes absolutely none of the facts of the way things are. Novell have quite explicitly addressed all your apparent 'issues'.

Bruce,

> There is always implicit in a license the threat that you’ll be sued if you don’t comply. Even if the license is the GPL. The implicit threat in Microsoft’s license to Novell’s customers is that anyone using Open Source without that license might be sued. And Ballmer has been very clear in his public statements that this is the case. So, the FUD is coming from Microsoft, and Novell takes shameless advantage of it.

Absolutely nothing has changed for every other distro out there. If we could all apparently be sued before (it's insane that you're suggested users could be sued), then they'll be susceptible after. Nothing has been _added_.

I honestly don't think there's a point in even attempting to speak to you, after you reach such crazily wild conclusions from a small collection of unrelated propositions.

Let's now look into non sequitur.

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By: Ubuntu | Jonathan Carter: Microsoft is blatantly anti-Linux https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40517 Wed, 21 Mar 2007 06:00:05 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40517 [...] to similar, competitive environments that might be deployed by customers on the Personas site. Aaron Toponce blogs about Bruce Perens talking at Novell’s Brainshare, and how Microsoft and Novell will attempt to sue companies who have not purchased open source [...]

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By: Boycott Novell » Coverage of Bruce Perens’ GPLv3 Event (with Audio) https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40468 Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:24:00 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40468 [...] covered Bruce Perens’ efforts to steal Novell’s thunder. Head over to pthree.org which offers the most comprehensive coverage of Bruce’s small-yet-loud [...]

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By: Irony https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40457 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 22:09:40 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40457 Karl's statements are baffling to me. He seems fairly deluded (optimistic?) to think that "Logic dictates what Ballmer says and Logic dictates how Microsoft leverages its IP(patents etc.). That logic is first and foremost a logic of self-survival." And since when does the CEO of a company (even a large one) "not dictate or direct the legal division". If not him then who does direct the legal division? Let me be more explicit... everyone at microsoft is ultimately responsible to the CEO. that's why he's the CEO. Sure, he says a lot of stuff for PR reasons but he still has the authority to act. Microsoft's acts in the past have shown they'll use all sorts of strategies to destroy the competition, even if the competition is not yet a direct threat. Just look at how MS dealt with Netscape and Novell. Millions of dollars make people/companies forget the past I guess.

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By: Gryyphyn https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40456 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:48:41 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40456 I think that one of the core things that everyone is ignoring is what Open Source is: it's open source, not open, pre-compiled programs. The spirit of the GPL is for the program as a general term but is strictly to protect the openness of the source itself.

If Novell or Microsoft want to sue for their programs they must write them themselves. Using Open Source code means they don't have the right to sue. GPL is a recognized standard of software release and not a court in the world would let them get away with suing users for using programs, OSs and applications published under its auspices.

Gryyphyn, out.

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By: Karl Zollner https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40447 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:30:02 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40447 I read those same things from Ballmer. And of course I was angered to see such stupid remarks.

But Ballmer does not dictate or direct the legal division at Microsoft. His comments are not an expression of "Microsofts" desire. His comments are simple posturing-nothing more, nothing less.

I guess what I am getting is at is there is a logic in work in these things-and your blog post just set me off because it is written as if this logic has not always, already been the case.

Noone who has followed these things for any length of time can be shocked or surprised by such comments from Ballmer. If they are shocking or surprising it is because you haven't been following him closely enough to have noticed it before.

His speech was directed at those who have a stake in the parasitic economic ecosphere which Microsoft created. By beating his breast loudly he drums up the enthusiasm of those who live by virtue of their enslavement to surplus economic spillover created by Microsoft's hegemonic position.

Ballmer is a master at FUD, not quite as good as the Bush administration but awful damned good. Each and everytime he holds a speech in front of an audience he creates, rhetorically, an enemy, and depicts how Microsoft will defeat them. Now remeber- these enemies- are for the most part those same people who have their livelihoods vested in the parasitic economic ecosphere which Microsoft created. Microsoft is equally dependent on this ecosphere-these enemies, use their OS and other software and develop their software to be sold for MS's OS. MS has no intentions of killing off its customer base-if it did-well good, that would be suicide.

For the foreseeable future 'enterprise' businesses will be using hybrid MS-Linux systems('solutions').Microsoft has already sold more Novell SLES licenses than Novell probably ever did alone: Microsoft does this cause they know that the personell working in these companies will still be using MS/MS-Office on their desktops for the next several years-regardless of what happens in Linux land. MS would not go to the trouble(profit) of selling these companies SLES if it were just going to turn around and sue them for using the software.

Logic dictates what Ballmer says and Logic dictates how Microsoft leverages its IP(patents etc.). That logic is first and foremost a logic of self-survival.

There is simply no comparison, economically speaking, between the amount of money in the entire Free Software industry, which could be won in lawsuits, and the money which Microsoft would loose by souring this parasitic ecosphere.

And until this balance tips- and that is a long, long way off, there is simply not even a likelihood of them becoming the evil litigous corporation like SCO. SCO engaged in this behavior because the relative value of their products was insignificant in contrast to what the dreamed they could win by pursuing litigation. When Microsoft accounts for less than 10% of the market then, perhaps, they will resort to such as a last stop-gap measure to avoid bankruptcy.

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By: Aaron https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40434 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:42:44 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40434 Karl- And what say you of Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft, saying himself that he is going to sue the Open Software developers if they don't quit infringing 'his' patents? The "facts", as you refer to them, are already on the table. No litigations yet, but a company's expressly written desire to do so. Bruce isn't speculating, he's taking the intent directly from the horse's mouth.

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By: Karl Zollner https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40429 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:31:24 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40429 Bruce,

I have a great deal of respect for you and what you have done for free software. But when you make comments like :

"Novell and Microsoft both hope to sue end users if the Open Source Software is not purchased from them."

you seem to be going off the deep end. I have yet to see any actions form Novell would could possibly justify such a statement. By stating such you are trying to rally everyone against Novell-and the method you are using is FUD-by definition. Until you can prove such a statement you are simply speculating- speculating a worst case scenario which would post-hoc lend total credibility to your statement. any publicly held Linux company could -at any time- be purchased by Microsoft and used to attack Free Software developers.

Shy of being bought-out by Microsoft I find it rather disingenuous of you to state that Novell plans on suing users of Free Software. And although I am sure you see them as being a sell-out let us remember that Novell, like the vast majority of software corporations, has always profited as parasites in the economy hosted by Microsoft.

This parasitic economic form is synonymous with the for-profit software industry-and accounts for 95% of commercial software development. Redhat, Sun and Apple are the only notable exceptions to this-and both Sun and Apple have similiar deals with Microsoft(the details of which neither you nor I will ever know).

I am vehemently against software patents and the entire proprietary software model. My disgust with the IP practices of Microsoft started long before Linux was even dreamt of.

Your comments pose themeselves as if they reflect the actual reality, yet the facts, however, speak a different language

Over the past years Novell has invested significant time and money in making code Free Software- additionaly they have contributed significantly to several external projects and to
Free Software projects which they themselves host. To ignore everything they have done and are doing and to paint a picture of them ala SCO is simply nonsense.

And Microsoft is still not suing Free Software developers. Patent-troll firms are a much greater threat to the Free Software community than Microsoft- Microsoft does not wish to sour the very IP regime which they created in the first place.

As much as I dislike their corporate practices and politics I think you are dead wrong if you think they are going to start suing the Free Software projects for patent infringement. Of course I could be wrong-but as long as such is not the case you have no right to slander Novell due to them doing what any reasonable understanding of their corporate history would have rendered as likely and to-be-expected behavior on their part.

I am not a fan of the recent MS-Novell deal. But being angered by this deal does not justify making such claims.

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By: Bruce Perens https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40418 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:22:15 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40418 Francis and Karl,

There is always implicit in a license the threat that you'll be sued if you don't comply. Even if the license is the GPL. The implicit threat in Microsoft's license to Novell's customers is that anyone using Open Source without that license might be sued. And Ballmer has been very clear in his public statements that this is the case. So, the FUD is coming from Microsoft, and Novell takes shameless advantage of it.

Bruce

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By: Aaron https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40399 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:31:10 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40399 Anonymous Coward- A similar link to ZDNet was posted on Slashdot. Who's the one spreading the FUD? Microsoft or Perens. I tend to think it's the former. Just read Balmer's own words:

http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/21/1346218

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By: Anonymous Coward https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40398 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:28:49 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40398 for you morons out there, you might want to read some of the FUD Ballmer has already been spreading.

http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/F1BDC941E758CE0BCC25728800190E58

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By: Aaron https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40356 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:56:16 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40356 Francis- Hahahaha!! You honestly think Bruce Perens is the one spreading the FUD??? I think you need to listen to the audio excerpt.

Karl- Novell stock is only doing well, because Microsoft is funding them. As with every other corporation Microsoft has partnered with, Novell will be swallowed up whole, then there will be only Microsoft stock. Novell was and still is a sinking ship. I would advise you too to listen to the audio, rather than pass judgment on Bruce.

You both might learn something.

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By: Karl Zollner https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40324 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:08:05 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40324 it looks like Perens is creating more FUD than Microsoft itself.

Man Microsoft is smart they get free software developers to do their FUD for them, and don't actually have to pay for it 😉

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By: Francis Giannaros https://pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40317 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:42:30 +0000 http://www.pthree.org/2007/03/19/bruce-perens-rains-on-the-novell-brainshare-parade/#comment-40317 FUD and even more FUD. I'm an Ubuntu user too but I can't stand the absolute nonsense that Perens spreads. Honestly, it doesn't take any knowledge of real logic to understand that he's speculating (almost beyond belief) on his own prejudices.

The real gem of this day was:

> Novell and Microsoft both hope to sue end users if the Open Source Software is not purchased from them.

I can't describe how stupid this statement is, so I won't try.

> Bruce kept saying “is this really a Novell exit strategy?” I can’t help but wonder if it is.

Err, yeah. You're at Brainshare (I think they had something like 5000 people turn up), Novell's stocks are booming, and you really think they're exiting? Come on, this is quite silly.

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